04.17 - Angel Peterson + Jeska POD-TALK
===
[00:00:00] Well, on the sorority today, I'd like to welcome my good friend Angel Peterson. And I met Angel actually through a coaching program last year. And then we met in person at a conference. And we've been in touch ever since because I love her vibe. I wanted to invite her on today so we can chat more about our journey.
We do a lot of similar things in our business. Same but different and it's good. It's time to catch up. So i'll let you introduce yourself a little bit lovely and then we'll just yammer on. All right. Thanks. i'm angel peterson I am a permanent makeup artist and trainer, out of columbus, ohio And been in beauty for well as of october 21 years, so didn't Yeah, 20 years 21 years.
It's crazy considering i'm 30, you know, um, but anyways Yeah, 21 years. So Angel, in your story, what brought you, I always like to understand, like what brought you to start Permanent Makeup and like stay in it for [00:01:00] 21 years? Like what, what brought you here? So I, oh gosh, that's such a great question. So I've been in beauty for 21 years.
I've been in permanent makeup about seven now. And so what brought me actually to permanent makeup was I had been doing hair. I liked doing hair, I was starting to age. Clearly as we do, and it was getting hard to like stand up and be behind the chair and my clients, I wasn't just doing hair.
I was a cosmetologist here, of that amount of time. And so I was able to do head to toe. And so they would ask me about skincare or ask me about aging products or something like that. And I just started to see a different type of need, not only in them, but in myself too, and I noticed things that. I didn't notice before when I first got in the beauty industry.
So I started looking into permanent makeup. I started looking more into the brows, the shape and things that you could do. And it actually started with just a microblading class. I started looking into it, started Googling [00:02:00] and was like, wait a second. What can I do? And it went from there. It just like catapulted from there and was like, oh yeah, I want to do that because that's drawing.
Like that's, that's, I like drawing.
That's interesting how like we get excited, right? We like think about some things like, well, I wonder if I could, you start Googling and you're like, I don't know what to pick. And once you find the one, like it, I started the same thing, just a simple microblading course, like one pattern, one size blade.
Which I use neither of now, but, you just start somewhere, but then you're like, it's like you're hooked. You're like, look what I can do, even though you're terrified at the same time. That's one thing I have to say, did you find like every time you learn a new skill, there's like this slight disdain for being new at something, but the excitement supersedes it?
Like, how do you navigate that through all the years being in it? You know what? I have like between hair and permanent makeup and just beauty in general, like 20 some certification. So yes, I hate being the, like the new person learning something because [00:03:00] when you have so much time in the industry, you're used to being the old person or the older person and the person that knows stuff.
So yeah, when I start learning stuff, there's that like, Ooh, I want to learn it, but then I'm also like, You're not going to trust me the way that you trusted me with other stuff. So now I've got to like earn my keep again. So at times it's kind of exciting. And then other times it's like, Oh, for the love of God, constantly earning my keep all the time.
That's. That's fair, you know, if I don't know something and haven't mastered it, that's only fair that somebody would want me to, you know, put the validity behind what I say I can do, so. Would you say that one of the reasons you stayed in the industry so long is because there's so many different things you can do?
Mm, yes, and because it had flexibility, it had Beauty just kept coming back up, you know? So if I did take a full time job because I was like, people were like, Oh, don't, don't be in beauty. Like you have a kid, you know, you're a single parent, the whole time. Get a real [00:04:00] job. Yeah. And I bought into like that lie every now and again, cause somebody would get in my head before I started not giving the shit.
Excuse me. But I, you know, I'm just like, Finally, yeah, I would keep coming back to it, you know, because you can always cut hair or you can always wax eyebrows or you can do permanent makeup. So there was so much as a creative that I could do and it didn't stay the same, you know. Yeah, I get that. It really fuels my multi passion, especially because not only can you have fun in your services, you have different, different like specialties in the service.
Like even in microblading, I use a nano brow technique. I like, I love playing with peaks and then I got hooked on different pigments. Like I, when I switched everything to biotech, I really liked switching into a new line and had the excitement of working with different pigments that worked in a different way and different results.
And it's just this constant, I want to say discovery. Like, you're just always discovering new ways that you love to do something. And I found there was so much more flexibility. Like, I get to decide who [00:05:00] I work with. I came from the tattoo industry. And for me, and originally, when I worked somewhere, it was up to whomever owned the shop, who I would get for clients, and what I was expected to perform, whether I wanted to or not.
Like, I had one boss that would make me work with a fever. It wouldn't matter. He would give me things that I didn't want to do, but it was my job to do them because he didn't want to do them. So it was very different for me to go into beauty. It was like, oh, I get to decide and it was a very, it was, I mean, tattoo industry has changed a lot in the last while, but there's still some fundamental things.
There's a different level of performance expectation that comes from the tattoo world. There's a lot of. They're a lot more ego. I mean, I guess there's a lot of catty bit shit in the beauty industry. I was never really a part of it, to be honest. But I find coming from two different industries, I had more control.
I had more flexibility and I found it more fulfilling because I wasn't being forced or I didn't have that need to like, I have to, I have to, I have to, I have to, or I'm going to get in trouble, or I won't be seen as good enough. Like maybe imposter [00:06:00] syndrome does that from time to time, but it wasn't that constant external pressure of like, needing to draw a certain way, or it's like their brows.
Either they come to me for a style that they like or they don't. And maybe maturity played a role in that too, where it's just like, this is what I have to offer. But I found with tattooing and artwork especially, there's so many different kinds of styles and art. And you'd find there's things that you don't like doing, and you do it, and you do a damn good job at it.
But if you didn't enjoy it, you know, in your soul, you're like, I, could I have done better if I loved it? Like if I would have said no and did something I loved instead, you're always going to have that in the back of your mind. Like, could I have done better? Did I, did I tattoo any of my resentment into that piece?
Like, are they going to carry that with them in their soul or something? Like, these are the weird, crazy things that would go through my mind. Whereas in beauty, I didn't have that. I mean, I kind of like did my little rebellion when I went into beauty and I just went. I'm done tattooing or [00:07:00] tired tattooing.
I won't do any of it. I'm just going to do lashes. But lashes weren't enough. I liked the fluffiness but it took too long to do a set because I was slow. It took too long to do a set. There were too many things I had to consider and like I've been using machines my whole life. I meant to work with my hands.
So I went right back to permanent makeup and I love it. I, I, The transformation is different. Like, tattooing is very therapeutic in some ways. Like, when I did do tattoos, I enjoyed the healing work, the celebratory work. some people just get for vanity and that's fine, but that was never really my jam. I just, I don't know, just felt icky.
Right? And you're like, I mean, I'm glad you like it and it's your body, but I always liked it at a deeper level of healing. So for me to do someone's face or areola, that transition, like seeing how they present themselves the next time they come in, different from the first time I saw them, that's where I found like, My poll was like, this is what I'm meant to be doing.
Where did you find that in your transition from like, [00:08:00] hair to permanent makeup? Like, where did you finally find that place where you're like, this is where it is for me? Yeah, you know, it's, it's funny because I, I did have a lot of, like, Celebrations in being in hair, because I did work with people that had went through, uh, you know, cancer treatments.
And I even got a phone call one day when my daughter was, I believe like 10 months old of, , somebody that. It was dear to my heart. Her mother was going through chemotherapy and needed me to come and actually, you know, cut her hair because it was falling out in the shower and it was getting stuck.
And so it was wet and it was, it was binding together and so being able to be there for somebody during that, and, you know, they're holding my newborn and I'm, I'm helping them with their mother's part of the other part of life, that was very rewarding. And it the shift came almost the same in a different way.
I had, you know, clients that would come in to [00:09:00] me that, you know, I've had scars from, you know, things that they had like chicken pox or other viruses, things that had taken away alopecia, like things that had taken away their brows. And that was, how it started and that started the transition of like, okay, I can actually do something with this, which was always, for me, that was something always that I wanted to be rewarding.
I like to make money. I'm not going to lie. Like everybody does. But I always needed something else. another driver behind it, stick with it. It can't j paper for me. So it has t passion that keeps me goi know, it did start with b with somebody coming in a
Literally had not had brows and now was able to leave with brows. When I started looking into other things such as the areola and the scar camouflage and being able to talk to like my OBGYN about what I'd be able to offer and help in that office and him being [00:10:00] like, Oh, actually, you know, you could do that and post up things to help with people.
Finding that, you know, passion behind that, the paper is always something that resonates with me. And, you know, even I had a girl come in one time before, and this is like a no, no, sometimes, unless you've talked to somebody before, cause she was going to have chemotherapy and we had to have her doctor actually sign off on it that, hey, listen, you know, we're doing this beforehand.
We We don't know your brows could come back, you know, higher, lower. There's a lot of things that can happen. And, is that something that I do on a regular basis to do something before knowing we don't know what's going to be that? No. But she, she knew what she was going to do. She knew what she wanted to do and she didn't want Out of everything else she was losing during that time for that to be one thing.
So she knew when she lost that, you know, when she lost the hair, she was going to still have something there. And so, you know, that's just, that's where it [00:11:00] hits me is knowing that somebody is gonna, even if it's just, you know, Hey, my eyes pop and I look younger today. I want them to feel confident. You know, I want to help.
And that's, that's what I like. That's what really did it for me. It's definitely the helping. And it's funny because a lot of us, when we're driven from that side of like that healing and that helping, it can get dangerous with people pleasing. Right? But I find we, I think it's interesting you mentioned it's more about the paper because every heart led individual, especially in a beauty or paramedical, permanent makeup industry will be like, well it's not just about the money.
It obviously isn't because like we could go work on the rigs or some other job that makes a bunch of money but we would hate it. That's why we don't do it. Running a business is not easy. Starting trainings and dealing with students and coaching people in my other business is not easy, depending on your clients.
And that's where we get to discern like who we work with. But it's, it's, would you say it's more about, it's like we're conduits. We're capable of giving people [00:12:00] their power back. But you know, it's not just about helping. It's like, here's what I can do for you. I can make your life better. So they, like, they get to choose if they want to look younger, feel younger.
They get to choose if they want to, most people feel so broken. We're not fixing them. We're giving them whatever gives them their power back to feel like they are, they are better or they are more. Like, healing is so much more than, like, skin deep. Like, when surgeons tell you six weeks and your wound is healed, no, it's superficially.
Yeah. Like, there's a lot of, like, traumas and, like, deeper tissue. Things like that. if you want to talk even just wound healing in general with brows, like, I won't go back in before 12 weeks. I wait longer. So I think there's so much more to be said when we, we actually genuinely heal people through our work and being a healer.
I think it's interesting because I know, like, you've done coaching and you do trainings and how that transitions from a client [00:13:00] basis to, like, Into the students and the trainings and i'd say that's probably for me The way it feels to see someone's life change is what makes me stand up and keep fighting through the bullshit of running a business And showing up no matter what people have to say and you know where this is gonna go because we're gonna start talking about Training, but how would you find with the transition from clients to into students or when you were coaching in the past, did you feel it was the same, like that need to help and to improve?
Like, what did you find was such a struggle when dealing with certain individuals that were stuck and it wasn't just like result based on what you could perform? Yeah. That's a great question actually, because Results, they're what we see, right? And a lot of that, you know, inner work, that whole healing that you're talking about, that's something that somebody feels a lot of times.
And we don't see the actual results of that literally sometimes until years later, even though they've been doing that [00:14:00] work behind the scenes for a very long time. And it's just like a progression of like step upon step upon, you know, process upon strategy, upon, you know, mindset and, and just all of that.
And for me, when I started doing this, I always knew I wanted to eventually teach now my motivation to do it then and do it now, are different because, you know, like, you know, when we first get in this industry, sometimes there's that, you can do it and then learn it and teach it.
And that was different, Seven years ago, and even 20 years ago when I got into, hair, you know, you could teach things after you had learned them, , doing it now, though, such a different, aspect, you know, when somebody has. Something they're trying to grow, whether that is themselves and they're trying to move into, you know, I want to get out of my nine to five angel.
And I would just want to take a training and I want to, I want to learn how to do this because every time I come in, [00:15:00] you like what you're doing, you know, which is a lot of what happens is my clients end up being my students. Yeah. Because you know, you're talking to them. They like your vibe. They like what you're doing.
And I would just, you know, share. It wasn't on, it wasn't even like a sales pitch. I'm sharing. And so, you know, there's that of where I can help somebody get into a different career. As far as coaching, that's building somebody up in a different way. That's building them up in a way of looking at what they've already started to grow and seeing how I can help them water it better or where they should be focusing.
Um, and I'm super thankful for my opportunity to do that. And, you know, how that came about. Um, I find my skillset is best with, uh, the skills based because I can look at the actual problem of their skills and help them hone in on that. Um, so I think trying to get somebody from that like new perspective, it does have to start with their mindset too though, because I can teach you all the skills [00:16:00] of how to start and finish a brow or a lip or an eyeliner or a tiny tattoo, but You can get so stuck up here that any skill I give you can maybe not translate to your client because you can't You can't make the transition.
It's not just about, our hand to the pen to the, , client, it is a lot from, you know, the mindset to the hand to, and that's, that's a lot of what I feel like you have to focus on when you're working with people is it's got to be all the way around. Now, personally, if somebody can't, or doesn't want to, you know, You know, focus on those things.
Totally understand. I don't throw that at anybody, but if, if it's asked of me, like, Hey, where do you see me here? Well, you're sitting in a thing where you're telling me this brow is horrible, and it's not. Literally, people would pay for this right now. Yep. You know, the self critical comes in and just like sabotages [00:17:00] them.
Oh, 100 percent. And I think it's, it's very fear based. Like, I, I, it's funny because I always have to coach the students in the classes. I have very small classes. I only do, like, Max four, I've even three is better. So a lot of anxiety to manage when you have three students, three models, that's six people who are like low key freaking out on the inside.
You're like, okay, everyone is going to be fine today. Like I am here. It's just going to be okay. And I find like that first model day. I'm like their first models, the way my curriculum's designed the first model. I'm basically doing it, and they're, they're doing some of it with me. Like, it's just breaking that, some people never touched a face before.
You know, getting used to, I don't know where to put my hands. The only way you're gonna get used to that is by putting your hands on them. And like, if you're not confident in cutting, try, try, if you're not. I even had one student where I had to give her a popsicle stick and she pretended. Because she was, I didn't feel confident enough in letting her actually blade that day.
And her model wasn't either. It's like, okay, well you can pretend. [00:18:00] It's just getting placement. And that first model, almost half, more than half will be like, they'll come in and admit like, well I wasn't going to come today, like I was going to, I was going to cancel. And I'm like, you're never going to get over the first time nerves.
And it's funny because they're not even doing it alone. It's just like, it's all in their head. They're like, I'm going to mess somebody up. It's like, you can't though. I won't let that happen today, and that's why we have it. So there's skill assessments, we call them. So they do their course and then they come in and they do a skill assessment until they pass X amount.
And they have to be confident, like just cause you've done three to five doesn't mean you're like, If you still need me to help you, you're not ready. Like, they're We've designed it very much based on People are very different. Some people fly through it and they're like, I fucking got this. Or they have, like, a history in aesthetics and they're pretty confident.
Yeah. And you have other people that, like, they're crying in the bathroom because they're terrified. And you're like, that's okay. Let's just work on your skins today, you know? And, , It's very humbling to see where people are [00:19:00] at, and it amazes me when they do show up anyway. Because people come in, and sometimes I've questioned in the beginning, like, am I just like, ruining their life?
Like, they're so upset, like, they're so scared. Do they really want to be here? But it's not me, it's because they don't think they can do it yet. Which, of course they can't, they've never done it. And it's always that reminder of Oh shit, like, we were there. Yeah, oh gosh. We were there. And when you see it in someone else, and you're like, it's gonna be fine, and like, you're all fine and dandy, and I gotta catch myself and be like, there was a hot minute.
Where I was like crying in my laundry room thinking like, how am I ever going to get left side to match the right side? Like what's going on? I don't understand. Like even trying to learn lashes. I wasn't even cutting the skin thing. And you're just like,
you're, I mean, you're telling the truth. I actually took lashes. and microblading at the same time. So [00:20:00] I was trying to learn two skill sets because, they're so different and they are so different. And when you're a hairstylist and you've learned how to master having three people go at once, of hair.
And so you move so fast to have to literally slow yourself down to that. Like, okay, you have to touch these people nicely. You can't just whip them around and put them under dryer and this person you're foiling. So. Yeah, it's it's different skill sets. You're right. Like it is. And the first person I ever did with, microblading was by myself at that time.
Um, when I got trained, it wasn't something that was required that I actually, and it's still not actually here. Um, but in my training, I do, um, that we were working on a person before we left our training. So I left never touching, it. A single person and did my first person by myself. And I remember looking at my business partner at the time that was doing lashes while I'm trying to cut this face, you know, which [00:21:00] is literally what I was doing was cutting this face.
I'm like, Oh God, I'm like, this is not okay. And I just, I was like, well, I just got to keep doing it because it can't stop now with that. Once I done, I remember those moments. I can't stop now. I've got to pull this off. And I remember she left and I just, I sat there and I was like, I told my business partner, I'm like, I'm never doing this.
I'm never doing this. And now here, obviously that's years later, but I was just like, I can't believe that I just like did that. You know? So yeah, well like this is where I think it goes to speak for like people like us who are successful and we are in an industry and we go from clients to trainings and all the things like we're, we're slightly psycho.
Like you have to be slightly psycho in order to show up and pull shit off the way that we do. Like you have to have like, even if we don't have blind faith in ourselves, just like, I have to make this work. So we just fucking do it [00:22:00] like we just fucking do it. But I don't want. my students to have to go through that because it's probably taking years off our lives.
Oh, yeah, and I think where that transfer was like when I was doing coaching and stuff too, I think a lot of the time It's entrepreneurship in general. You, sometimes you just have to fuck around and find out, but you get to decide to what degree. Like, are you just gonna waste time until you find out? Are you just gonna throw money at shit and not actually put the work in?
Like, where, where is this not working for you. And it's that same block when you're trying to translate a brow onto somebody and you see the student struggling and you're like, I know they've done it time and time again, but then they're sitting with a person in front of them and they're like pale and they're hesitating.
And it's like, you can, you've done this 50 times. You can do this. It's just that, that moment where it's like you just have to show up and you just have to prove to [00:23:00] yourself and believe in yourself. And I think maybe that's some advice we could even have people take away from this today is like when you are doubting, take a minute to look back at the points in your life that you were traumatized by or self doubted by.
Someone clicked a trauma and like remember how you showed up and did it anyway and remember how you've pulled it off? You need to give yourself more credit because if you can do that crazy shit There's no reason why you can't do stuff with a plan and a professional mentor in place Like you can't lose if you're betting on yourself because you know, you're gonna show up anyway Or you wouldn't be here.
Not in this world, anyway. Yeah, of course. I agree. Like, I really, man, just bet on yourself. Like, bet on yourself. And do it. Do the work. You know? Keep showing up. And, and, you're right. There are just times that you just have to go forward. Like you, I'm not saying like neglect the skill, neglect something else, you know, go forward when you don't [00:24:00] have, but that's why you have people around you, you know, to help you and to guide you.
And, Yeah, I think that's one of the things I've learned in training is that like some people, they can come in and do a five day class and then some people, they want a six month mentorship and they want to be apprenticed with me and, and it's that, that different level of like, where's my, where's my comfort level, but not staying stuck, you know?
It's a recognition of self leadership. You know, people go from, I want to learn this. Like, no, I want to be fucking good at this. And like, that's where I find like, the students that do well are the ones that practice. Show up to class, ask the questions, ask for help. Like, you know, there's always some that are just too nervous to admit they're struggling.
You got to tell me if you need help and I can help you. I can't, can't help you. Don't ask for it. So it's just really anchoring into that leadership, like admitting, I don't know this well enough. I need help here. In any area in business or [00:25:00] life or skill development, you have to have self leadership. You have to own what your, your, your weakness is.
And if you're not sure you need to, I think you need to really kind of humble yourself and ask people to point out your blind spots. Half the time when I buy. Like a program and I'm trying to like go through and figure it out and I still can't get it and then I hire a Coach and they're like, oh, well, did you ever think of that and you're like blind spot?
Okay And like, your friends and your family, you don't have to spend thousands of dollars to have someone tell you that, like, ask friends and family, where, like, you know, some people might not want to tell you because it's something you're going to get defensive about because that's where the mental block is, that's where you're stopping yourself, and that's where leadership comes in, like, you have to own your shit in order to manage your shit, like, our chaos is our magic if we can harness it and stay focused to move forward.
Absolutely, I agree. So what would you say is like your biggest driving force right now? Like what are you really passionate about right now in your business? And [00:26:00] what's like pushing you through, like, what do you have? Like any like subconscious struggles where you're like, Oh shit, anything going on? Even at like your 21 years experience.
Wow. That's, that's like, that's like loading up a, a nerf gun.
Yeah, like, uh, or a water gun or, you know, something like that. Um, of course there's always things back there, uh, because I am never satisfied with just What's happening now. So I'm always like trying to move forward. Uh, it's something that's just in there. It's, you know, I think, uh, I had a couple years of like lost time, as I want to say, like, it's just back there that I feel like I'm, I'm trying to make up for.
So I do have to catch myself on that. That is one struggle that I will think. Well, you lost that time back there, you know, doing, doing your dirt, you know, doing the stuff that you did that kind of held everything back. So you've got to like, catapult yourself, you know, a hundred, you know, [00:27:00] years ahead, uh, and just kind of sitting there and, you know, yeah, I'm 46 and, and yeah, I've been in the industry this long and, and things like that.
And just reminding myself that I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be right now. You know, and focusing on like where my feet are. And this is what I want to work on. So I do, uh, definitely make plans for like, you know, the quarterly goals and things like that. And that's something that it gained, with, you know, where we met.
Because I, I do believe that that's super important that I have those quarterly goals and those other roles because I still need a plan I I do and I didn't even know that I did , so that's something that I still take in account for myself, even as a trainer even as somebody that does services and then also trains as well You know, and I I do love what I do as far as like, you know anything else in You know where I'm going and what I'm doing right now.
I really [00:28:00] love my focus on doing trainings. , I've really enjoyed doing the tiny tattoos recently as far as the trainings for those i've really enjoyed i've actually added just recently. Not just the training of like a five day training or something like that , I actually am in a whole process, with some students right now of like a longer program like of Like a six month program that, you know, maybe they had a skill set that they learned and maybe they took powder brow.
And now they want to actually know more because they didn't get enough and they need more. Or maybe they wanted to learn all of my trainings a lot of trainings online. So, uh, being able to like offer that and walk through those with them, has been. So far, because it's just in the beginning stages of that, that six month time, , it's been good, right there.
That's something I enjoy being able to like talk through that whole process of the skills. But yeah, I really, I hate, you know, I tell you, I've told you [00:29:00] a couple of times, I really do love the tiny tattoos. I do love, uh, because that to me, when you said it was therapeutic, uh, listen, Hair was never what I was going to do.
I wasn't hair was not even on my radar. Uh, art school was on my radar. So it is super like natural for me to be drawing and to do a tattoo. So when I sit down, whether it's little, just because that's what I focused on, or if somebody was asking me to do something larger, that is like a whole different level, not.
just for me, but for like them too. And, uh, because it's not just the, like I'm giving you brows or I'm giving you lips or something like that. Self expression you get to be a part of it. Yeah. Yeah. I get to, I get to be a part of the creative process with you. And so, yeah, that's been super therapeutic. Um, and also teaching people how to do that has been so cool because the needle knowledge, the depth [00:30:00] knowledge, the, the shading, the whip shading, like I've seen some things, With teaching and starting to talk about, you know, the tiny tattoos.
And now I'm going to have another class. In addition to the first class that I dropped with tiny tattoos, I've seen where there's some lack. So when you start teaching one course, and I'm sure you know this, you find from that course, what your next course is going to be, because they start asking questions and you're realizing they didn't know this or they didn't know that, and then it's like.
You don't know what, okay, hold on a second, then we need to step back. Okay, so here's how you do this, and here's how you, what's the difference between this and this, and pendulum, and whip shading, and da da da. And so, yeah, that's my, my process that I love right now. I really love that because it gives me not just the standard, like, here's a brow pattern and everything.
It gives me, yeah, my creativity back that, I really love. I love that you brought this up because with our tattoo trainings we were doing like a class group essentially in the beginning we did a few group trainings but I've actually changed it [00:31:00] now where I took it's funny because in my coaching business it's one on one I don't do a lot of group stuff on that side and I recently amalgamated where I'm like I actually now do one on one Tattoo training where I do a, I can do a three month introductory fundamental, and then they can choose to sign up for three or six more months.
And I like this better because I found in the classes there's always one person who's like not as artistically inclined as someone else or who's struggling, and then that kind of beats them up in their brain while they're trying to learn in the group and everything else. And I was like, I really like the one on one because Everyone has their strengths.
So as they're like, one might be more inclined to like, well, I want to really get into color. Let's fucking get into color then. Like, not as limited to like what this class is teaching. And how I structure mine is I did a fundamental, I strictly start with a fundamental fine line. So my tiny tattoo class is just fundamental fine line.
And we just start there. And I don't do the whip shading method. I do more of like a traditional line work method. But this stems me into workshops. So this summer we're actually doing, [00:32:00] um, doing like an Ink Slinger special with the school this summer, , I'm not even trying to drop it. This podcast isn't even for that.
But, um, we have workshops in place, so like they can do a color blending basics, uh, black and gray shading. There's, um, realistic roses is one of them, and like a scripture workshop. So like different things that people wanna focus on, they can kind of come and do these. Little workshops and I put them as online demos and stuff later But it just gives people a chance to come and explore what they enjoy and if they want to work on more than one thing Then come and do like the sit down Let's do six months together and let's have people come in and I just sit alongside you and let's make some crazy shit Like let's do it and I love seeing how some artists come in and sign up for a fine line course And like they're not fine line artists They come in and they learn line work, but like, they are more of like a large scale, art scale tattoo artist, which is nothing wrong with that, but they'll struggle with the tiny stuff because they work better in like, more traditional tattoo sense.
Like, let's just fucking do that then. Here's a seven round [00:33:00] liner. Work on that, you know, and just seeing what feeds people's different Like, there's just different inclinations, different things they're drawn to, and I love seeing that spark go off and being like, Oh, this is where you're going to go with that.
Because they don't even know half the time when they come in. And like, that's what lights me up. It's like, Oh, did you find what, like, did you find something? Did you find what's exciting for you? Yeah. Oh, and, you know, some people don't, they don't like the way that I do things, and that's fine, because they, you know, I think people see our advertising for tiny tattoos and I've had people tell me well, we don't support your weekend tattoo classes And I'm like, I don't have a weekend tattoo class.
Thank you, though. I get to a point where I'm here for them. I'm here for that moment when they come in and they feel incredible. I've had two students take a simple fundamental course and they've already opened two private spaces and they're doing incredible. They worked really hard, they're awesome at it, and they want to keep learning [00:34:00] and growing but they've mastered one small thing and they're doing that one small thing.
People have this like, this idea that if you can't do it all, you shouldn't do any of it yet. Which feeds so much bullshit that we tell ourselves in our life. This is why no one ever starts or does anything, because they don't know it all. It feeds the perfectionism and the over knowledge whole and, you know, all that shit.
And it's like, why not? Why can't they start with something small and be great at it, and then get better and do more. Right. Yeah, I mean that's a, that's really a, an interesting idea because I will say that coming from. Hair. You know, you start with small things, right? Mm-Hmm. , you start with like a haircut and then highlights or an Oliver color, like, and you build, right?
Um, but if somebody just wanted to focus on haircuts, there was, you know, Mario OSI that let them do haircuts or color and they focused on those areas and there was nothing wrong with that. Um, I think it's interesting [00:35:00] how. Some thoughts are, and I think it's opening up a little bit, but I think it is interesting.
The thoughts of, you know, tiny tattoos versus big pieces. And I've actually had conversations with tattoo artists about it. Um, a few of them, and you know, for permanent makeup artists, if you think about it, we are on a small scale, we're on their face on this small scale. So our hands. in some manner, most of the time is in a small area focused on a small detailed point.
So, you know, theoretically, it would make sense that a small, fine line, tiny tattoo, if you can grasp the needle depth and everything about it and the speed, and you understand that you're actually, you're wanting to go deeper and you're wanting to do things like you can grasp all of the knowledge that you need to, it Seems like a natural transition to me again.
I didn't start in the the tattoo industry now that being said [00:36:00] I can also see where somebody comes in and they're like, yeah, I like this, but I want to do bigger pieces. I, myself, I'm going to tell you right now, small ones are not what I'm going to stay with. I, because I do know how to draw and you know, that was my original passion.
I've already started, like, I, I enjoy, I'll still do the small ones because my focus has been. Small for a very long time. Right. On a face, on lips, on a areola, on a scar. But I definitely know I'm already getting requests. Like, Hey, I want this Gemini on my back. Can you do that? Yeah, I can. We're going to have to talk about like when, cause that's a whole different thing in my schedule versus a, a, you know, tiny tattoo that takes a lot less time.
But, I personally don't see the problem with somebody learning more skills. It's no different than learning styles of browse. As long as you're doing it safe and in a professional environment with professional mentorship, [00:37:00] there is no reason why you can't go from one to the other. You know, I think there's a lot of, this is where like other people's opinions affect people chasing their dreams.
Right, like people are so scared to be a conflict of interest or to upset someone or like, you know And then you have like the those that come in like well, you're just toe dipping. You're not learning at all You're just starting small and it's like and okay. Yeah, like and I don't understand what the problem is.
And I think that's what holds so many women back from getting into Especially, people come to me and they want to start makeup or tattoos, a lot of women just want to start tattoos. And I have people that have reached out to me that have gone shop to shop to shop trying to get an apprenticeship, trying to get this, trying to get that.
And it's like, why can't they just learn a skill? It's like, if they want to learn basic machine skills, Who am I to deny them that? Like why everyone I think has [00:38:00] a right to learn. Like there's no stupid question. And I think we all, especially as women, I mean, a lot of us get into this business and entrepreneurship because we want control over our own life.
We're sick of seeking permission. And quite frankly, based on my history in the industry, I got tired of being told what to do and what I couldn't do. So. That's kind of like what fuels my little bit of fire into why I teach and train because if someone wants to pursue something, of course I will fucking cheer them on and I will show them everything I've got.
Now, I can show you everything I know and I can sit there and do it with you, but I can't do it for you. That's where there's a line, where it's like, you have to decide if this is what you're gonna do. Um, one thing I wanted to mention about trainings, because someone had mentioned to me, they're just like, oh, well you're just creating, you're creating, people are just gonna start doing stuff from home.
And I was like, I don't have to take my training, I tell them not to, but like, who's stopping them from going on YouTube and doing things from home? True story. I mean, [00:39:00] you know, Jessica, the thing is, is that they're, they're already doing that. That's like saying, I'm not going, this is going to be a very strange example, but that's like saying, I'm not going to give this person on the side of the road something cause they might use it for something I don't think they should use it for.
I don't have control over that. I can provide what I'm able to give that would make their situation better, their life better, their, what they're going to do better, whether that means that they do it at their house or not, that responsibility lies with them. Okay. Um, I give the skill sets. I cover myself.
I make sure they do the bloodborne pathogen. I do the things that set them up for success and safety, ultimately safety, um, and for their clients. They can just go. But do you know what happens is when you offer and you open that door and you create that bridge? Do you know how many people were doing it at home and [00:40:00] told me, Hey, I was doing this at home and I was trying to learn and I was doing this and I was doing that, but then I saw you had this and I created a bridge for them to feel safe to say, I didn't, I didn't know where to go or what to do.
And they came to me and now they're not doing that, trying to learn. They're not doing that, trying to do tattoos. They're going in. So. Leadership. We demonstrate leadership and give a safe professional environment for them to see. I've had men, grown men, grown men who've been to shops, and I'm not going to name drop anybody obviously, but they've come into my bright pink studio looking for the girl with the pink hair that they saw on Instagram, their wife told them about, or something along those lines, and they come in.
And, you know, they're like, well, I've been working on skin, and I always have that look, I don't have a poker face, and I'm always like, uh huh, and they're like, I know, I know, I just, can I show you though, and I'm like, absolutely, you can show me, and I'll take a look, and you know what, then they come, and they come to me, [00:41:00] and they do one on one, and I'm like, okay, if this is what you want to do, and I'm like, okay, cool, cool, cool.
Let's teach you how to do it properly, and that's all they've ever wanted. Grown, mature men, not just women, anybody, they've come in, and when we can lead with love and provide a space for people to sincerely improve upon their skills, self leadership, I think when it comes to the whole YouTube and doing shit at home idea, If we can demonstrate self leadership and inspire and empower people to make good, safe choices, we can only hope that they will.
Just like we do for our kids. You can only parent so much. In the end, a person is a person. And that's why, like, I have a qualification process, and I'm a little more strict on who I will or won't take on. But, at the same time, I give a lot of people a little extra. It's like, I probably, I probably shouldn't, but I'm gonna give you a chance.
And 90 percent of the time, because I gave them that chance, they don't fuck around. They want it. You can tell when people want something bad enough that they want to do it right because those [00:42:00] people are like us. It's not any different than the tattoo artist that this gentleman that I know, he came to me because he knows I do permanent makeup and he's like, Hey, listen, Some of my people, you know, at first he was like, well, tell me about your services and wanted to know some information.
And then he was like, just like any entrepreneur, he's like, well, hold on a second. Like, he's a tattoo artist. And he's thinking, well, I could learn that. He didn't take it upon himself to just say, Hey, I do tattoos. I'm going to go ahead and start tattooing brows. No, he said, Hey, how can I do your training?
What does it take? Will you work with me? Can we do something? Can we like, and I'm like, yeah, we can, because he took The initiative to think like, okay, I've been doing this, but I pro that's probably different than me doing brows. That's probably different than me doing this. And it's, so it's, I, it shouldn't, in my opinion, shouldn't be a different shift if I want to learn how to do the other, you know, if I want to [00:43:00] learn how to do full body, you know, big pieces and, and go into, you know, huge, um, You know pieces for somebody versus or even tiny tattoos versus him coming to me and saying angel I really want to learn how to do brows Because I know I know how to do this, but I don't know how to do that.
So exactly It's all skill. It's technique, right? Like i'm a firm believer like I don't give a fuck who gets mad about this But like there should not be a divide between tattoo industry and the beauty industry when it comes to permanent makeup needles depositing pigment in skin That is it. We are tattooing.
There's different depths or different techniques or different levels. I know everyone, the hard OGs will be like, micropigmentation and tattooing are not the same. Technique wise, no, they are not. By definition, they are not, but they are in the same industry. If you are breaking a skin barrier and there is blood and you are depositing pigment, I don't give a fuck who you think you are.
We are all on one level. That's it. There's [00:44:00] safety that's involved, there's skill that's involved, and you have to actually give a shit about the people you're working on. So, like, we're service based, we're service led, and we're harming people to improve them. Like, there's something there that I don't think enough people touch on.
It's not just about bandits. People are coming to us vulnerable, telling us how shitty they feel about themselves, or what's happening, or what they're commemorating, or healing from, or whatever. They're trusting us to leave our mark on them, forever, to make their life better. Yeah, that's so true. Like Like, like, shit, that's an important thing.
It's not just, like, we're just artists, like, we are literally changing lives in so many, mind, body, and spirit, like, this affects all of it, and I think That should be, it needs to be just renamed in its own group. Just be like, you know, just like, [00:45:00] I don't know what it would be. Just start some weird hashtag or something for it.
I mean, you're already named angel. So, oh gosh. Yeah, I don't, I, they, they had some interesting expectations apparently. So, you know, earthbound angels. I mean, we are human. Yeah, they did. They got called out on that one real quick. April Fools! Well, nearing the end of this, Angela, what would you say is like your biggest takeaway from your experience and your journey from where you began, where you are now, like, what, what do you kind of take away from this?
What's something you'd want to tell your past self? And what's something that you remind yourself going forward into like the next adventures and the next stages of everything? Hmm,
you know, I think. First of all, just in the thing that I would tell myself is enjoy it. I spent [00:46:00] too much time rushing through it and now I see it in retrospect. A lot of the things that, um, I got to do a lot of the opportunities that were handed to me and they were great. Um, I've had a huge amount of opportunities come forth, uh, that I never planned on.
So being present in every step of it, even if it's painful, um, there's something that will come of it. So being present and then, you know, going forward, gosh, There is nothing like just truly in embracing like that. I continuous learning. Now, I don't care if that's in your skillset, as far as like permanent makeup or tattooing or lashes, whatever it is, but just allowing yourself that space to know you don't know.
And that's okay. That doesn't mean you're a horrible person because you don't know everything. If I don't know everything, that's okay. I don't know everything. [00:47:00] I will make a phone call. I will find out for you if I don't know. And not feeling guilty for not knowing. Educating yourself, doing the best that you can at the time.
And I think that's one thing that, I love about that quote that's like, When you know better, you do better do that. Don't give an excuse that I didn't know and do shitty work or do something badly or poorly or unsafely. But when you know better, do better and continuously learn. I don't care what it is.
If it's being a parent, continuously learn. There are books, there are podcasts, there are all kinds of things. It's about, you know, how to relationally be in a relationship with your spouse or your partner. Do that. If it's about your skillset and your business, continuously learn. It just, it's never stopping.
Yeah, open to receiving new information, new perspective, and you don't have to agree. You don't have to like it. It's not a waste of money. If you hire somebody to teach you something, and it's not for you, it's still a learning experience. It's, [00:48:00] you still gain something. You're like, that's not for me. That's not what I like to do.
And that's okay. You're actually allowed to change your mind at any given moment. I think people forget that in the learning phase where they're just like, I'm not good at this. I wasted my money. I wasted their time. You didn't waste shit. Just like how you said you're making up for lost time. I bet there's something you needed and learned in that phase of your life that wasn't really lost time.
There's some something on growth happened on some level. It just might not been the way that you wanted it to. 100%. 100%. I would have never known that. You know, the first 14 years of my, you know, beauty career in hair would help me cultivate relationships in multitudes of different parts of beauty so that I can have conversations with you.
And I can talk to a guy that's been in the hair industry for 30 some years that was in Vietnam and, and I can talk to this, but, but I learned how to talk to people for two hours at a time. I had never met. Okay, so it's all a different process. Did I know that that's where I would start and here's where I [00:49:00] am?
God knows where I'm going to go. No, but I'm okay. I got podcast. Now we both have podcasts. I mean, Oh, I love that. That's right. Yeah, I don't know where to look. I know, right. Just one of those things. I remember telling myself in school, like I was in college and we had to do work terms to finish our degree because it was an applied degree so we had to actually go and do the work in order to get the degree.
Which, again, kind of feeds into the kind of trainings that we do. So, One of them, they were gonna, one of the options was to go to Korea and work at a radio station, but I, I denied it. I was like, no, I can't, I can't enunciate. I talk too fast, I'm scatterbrained, like I don't talk well. And now I'm a podcast.
The stories we tell ourselves, right? Like, just learn. And if you don't know, learn. Try it. And it's okay to learn and discover your own way of doing things. I remember in the beginning when I was learning, I'd get so mad. It's like when I was three and I couldn't draw like Mr. Dressup. I don't know if you know what Mr.
Dressup is, a Canadian show. But [00:50:00] he would do his drawings, he would just do these marker drawings. And I would be mad at three that I couldn't do it because I was three. And I felt the same way learning some brow patterns, like some of the, like there's some beautiful microblading, like heavy detailed brow patterns that are gorgeous.
But like, They make my skin crawl and I get irritated and I'm just like, I'm not meant to do this many strokes in one. That's just not what I do. I like more, more peakiness, more spaciness, more fluffiness. I don't like, I don't like bleeding that way, but I had to be okay with that. 'cause there were two years where I was like, I'm not gonna amount to shit if I can't do it this way.
And it's like, actually, I like doing it this way. And now that's what I'm known for. Yeah. So yeah. Somebody will like you. Mm-Hmm? . Yeah. Somebody will like you over liking somebody else. I mean, it just. Yeah, it is. What's something that you're proud of that like you want to be known for in your work? Like, is there any certain style or technique or anything that you really pride yourself in that you do?
In my work? [00:51:00] Oh gosh. Or in anything? Loaded question. That is a loaded question. You know what, if I had to think of something, you know, skills wise, of course, you know, I'm always refining my skills, so I don't think there's something that specifically yet But I will have one. I'm working on that right now.
There's a few things. But known for personally, , in professionally, , is. It's my relational skills. It's my, it's my relationship building, my ability to look outside of whatever I see on Instagram or Facebook or TikTok or YouTube or whatever, and build those bridges, with people and talk to anybody, no matter where they've been, what they've done.
And. Not say that I'm coming to a level that's, but seeing them where they are and, and let's, let's go forth, you know? Um, so that my [00:52:00] relational skills and like, you know, building relationships with people is probably my favorite thing. That's why I love the podcast. And honestly, still why I love my services because it's really not just a browse service when they come in, you know, they're telling me all kinds of things.
Yeah, honest connection. I can see that because between students, between services, between talking on podcast, it's all that honest connection. Even when I met you, like we just, just chat, get bummed into each other, just chat, chat, whatever. Like, you know, it was never about the weather. It was just, let's talk.
Yeah. I can't even imagine my clients would probably think I was sick or something if I asked them about the weather. They're like, yeah, I know everything about from like beginning to end. Yeah. My only thing with the weather is if it's like, if I'm whining, I'm like, I'm cold and my bones hurt, I'll say it.
But other than that, it's just because I want to whine about it. I can't stand this shit. Have you seen the gas prices? I don't. I go and I [00:53:00] pay for it when I need it. Because why, why would I stress about it? Like, it's just, but let's talk birth trauma. Want to know what happened when I gave birth to my daughter?
Like, that's where I'm at half the time and people are like, I have a lot of moms that come in and like, they went through such like traumatic experiences and like that's where I meet them on that level. It's like, oh, and then they start talking about, they send people to me for other things, scars, stretch marks, because it's that vulnerability.
It's like, I'll just meet you where you're at. You want to talk about some crazy shit? Sure, I'll meet you there. I'll tell you my crazy shit too. Why not? Let's overshare the shit out of each other. It's fine. But I love, I love that. I love that your skill is so good. I love how quickly you can connect and how you don't have like a pressure about you like, you know, like even we've tried rescheduling this I don't know how many times because like We're just honest with each other and there was never like that weirdness where it's like, you know what?
I'm talking about just like that. You never have that weirdness. Just like hey, I'm running late with my clients not gonna work Like oh, I can't do this today [00:54:00] either Kayla cool Yeah, yeah, that's a bummer when that happens, and I hate that, but I'm like, wait, what's the better way to be? I can either be honest and authentic and tell you what's going on, or I can be like, so, you know, but where are we getting with that?
Just be honest and real, and it is what it is. Like, I don't have time to make shit up. Like, can we do it in a pool? It's not working right now. We have to reschedule. Okay, cool. But now we got here, and we got to, like, shoot the show for an hour. And this was wonderful. Thank you again for agreeing to come on and it's nice to talk to someone who's been in the industry for so long because it's just, it's refreshing because for me, like I was in the tattoo industry longer than this.
So it's, it's interesting to see how much there is that crossover. When I say like, that shouldn't be different. It really shouldn't be different. I can't, I honestly can't imagine being in another industry. I, I just, it's just, I try to go and you just boom, paper it back in. I know, I love it. It's like, I'm addicted to it because I'm addicted to the results I get for those people.
It's like, I [00:55:00] can't, I can't not. It's like this, that's how we find our purpose, right? We're obsessed, we're obsessed with what we love and that's all that matters. There's lead yourself to be obsessed with what you love. There can be like a little quote from today. There you go. There's your hashtag. Right.
Hashtag. Yeah! I don't know, after, I can't remember what I just said though, I'm going to have to re listen now. Because that's just how quickly. It'll come back to me in like, tomorrow. Just takes a minute. Works its way through my working memory. Has its own issues. Thank you again, Angel, for being on today.
And I know that, uh, when we're recording this, there's an eclipse, so enjoy that. Wear your special glasses. I'm jealous I don't have. I am in the line of totality. My state is, you know, in the line of totality, apparently, whatever that means, for three minutes or something. I think it's happening in like an hour from now.
Yeah, soon, soon, yeah. Well, enjoy, and message me how wonderful it is. Okay. And until next time.
