On today's episode of the sorority with Jessica Mystic, I have a wonderful lady here. Her name is Ali West, a life coach and therapist who's been doing some very interesting work, and I'm not going to spoil it to let her explain it before I ruin it with all of my verbose non techno babble.
So, I was really driven to bring Ali on the podcast because we were actually in a coaching container together and she was talking about her work and I just loved how lit up. You were Ali about this and how it kind of came to be how you were doing it and how you learned more about it. And I'm going to let you take the stage and introduce yourself where you're from what you do.
And let's just, let's just, let's just chat about it because it's a real treat for everyone here today, especially our divergent. Everyone's in a state of healing themselves. So like, let's, let's dive in.
Yes, yes, yes. So just because you brought up the divergent, so I'm definitely neurodivergent. I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was younger, which I'm really lucky that I was diagnosed when I was younger and that I had parents who were like, okay with diagnosing me.
That's one of the good things they did. but yeah, so I am a therapist and a life coach. And yeah, I've been doing therapy for a while, for over 10 years now. And, the reason that I decided to also add life coaching, a life coaching business, they have to be separate, is because I had a lot of clients who, like, got better so fast, and once you don't meet criteria for a mental health diagnosis, you can no longer do therapy, like therapists can't really work with you, because our clinical licenses define psychotherapy, which was the technical term for it, as working with someone to ameliorate, mental disorders, mental disorders, , that's in quotes.
People can't see me. And so. Yeah, exactly. So once you don't meet criteria according to the DSM, which is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, then a therapist can't work with you anymore because it's not therapy. So, and for me, I'm like, I want to work with people on like the whole spectrum.
Like, I don't want it to just be like, okay, so you, like, uh, with the diagnosis, like, part of it is that you have to, your functioning has to be impaired. And it's like, I was working with people, and it's like, okay, now I'm functioning, but I see how this work can help me work through things and get unstuck, and I want to keep doing that.
It's working, so now, instead of, like, using this approach to just function, like, How about I use it for like positive goals that I have. And I've always been super into like positive psychology and reaching goals. I've always been like a high achiever. , who also burns herself out, which is something I could talk about, like swinging back and forth.
Yeah. Between the extremes of like, I'm going to go, go, go. And then like, okay, I'm exhausted. Um, which is also a little bit of the neurodivergent kind of like extreme. Yes, exactly. So yeah, so that's what got me into life coaching. So basically I can work with everyone and I can use like what I know about human nature and psychology and the brain to help people get unstuck wherever they are on that spectrum.
Whether it's like, well, I am dealing with a, you know, diagnosable, diagnosable mental health disorder. And I just want to be able to function and be okay to do like, I want to live my best life ever. , that's why I moved into life coaching. And yeah, so the thing that I was so lit up about that you and I were talking about, well, I guess we weren't talking about it.
I kind of just like shared it with the whole group and you were like, oh my God, I want to know more, which made me really excited. Yeah. I love that because it's like, I'm sure you know how it feels when you're like so excited about something and like other people, the people who happen to be around you're just like, whatever, but it's like you're like fixation at the time.
So it's like nice that you were like, that's cool. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So at the time what I was sharing was, That I was learning about this, memory reconsolidation, which is like a neurological process that occurs. And it can occur naturally just from like experiences that you have. But basically it's like, if we were to boil it down, I can get more in depth, but to oversimplify it, it's basically like any of the beliefs that you have about the world and the way it works and the things that you have to do to.
Work functionally within it to make it work to be okay to be accepted. All those things are a type of memory. They're a procedural memory. And so when we try to work on feeling better about ourselves or changing our beliefs by it. Something like just telling ourselves, Oh, no, actually, you're good.
You're worth it. That can only go so deep and it's not actually going to change that initial belief. It's actually just going to compete with it. So if you think about like, if the initial belief is like. Let me think of like a recent client that I've been working with. So if your belief from your experiences is if I stand up for myself, then I'm in the wrong and then I feel guilty and I feel ashamed.
So I don't stand up for myself. And this is what I have to do to be okay in the world. If you work with someone, if that client works with someone who is like. No, you're good. Like you can stand up for yourself. Let me teach you about assertiveness. Let me teach you about your worth. They might be able to learn those things, but this initial belief of , it's not okay for me to stand up for myself or like being assertive as being aggressive They're just going to compete with each other and that's actually called more of like a counteractive approach to helping people where it's like Okay, we're going to create this new belief, but you're going to continually have to remind yourself of that You To counteract the initial belief.
And that's, it leads to a lot of relapse because you have to constantly be keeping that up. Whereas with memory reconsolidation, it's an approach that you can use to just work with the brain's natural way of eliminating the initial belief. So that then you, it's not counteracting with anything. It's like you eliminate.
Yeah, exactly. So you can remove that belief, you can kind of like remove those procedural memories, which is really just the meaning that you made of those experiences that is no longer serving you, you can literally delete that, and then you can also of course add like this is what's really true, but you don't lose the episodic memory, which is like the, this is what happened.
So you still, you know, remember what actually happened, it's just that you no longer believe the meaning that you made of it. So that you can actually just like fully believe what you've learned now. So if I was to take this and like personalize an experience to kind of translate what you're saying, make sure we're all on the same page, understanding.
So for example, as a child getting awards for performance, be good grades, be it praise that then continues into this belief that, okay, I need to perform in order to achieve in order to be seen. In order to be good, smart is good. So identify with my work, which then means my life becomes work, which means now that's more important and it's a constant struggle.
So I can speak from a perspective where I was recently going through a program, trying to unlearn. Cause I slowed down. I'm still successful. I'm still present. My success might look different than someone else's. Like I'm a present mother. I'm running two businesses. I do have money coming in. You know, all these things, but you feel like you're failing because, well, I'm not operating at the level I was last year, this, but even though that level put me in the hospital, but I was doing more, I was more and it's like, but I don't need to be doing it that way.
I don't need to do it all myself. I can have people help. Now I spent thousands of dollars on coaches to teach teach me and train me different ways. But what you're talking about is when you have that initial memory, people are telling you, you can ease in here's flow, but there is that internal struggle.
And that's where you feel like give up. You want to blow everything up. You're resisting. You feel physically ill. You feel like there's something wrong with you. Like, why can't I just fucking relax? Why can't I just accept this as my new norm and be okay with it? And it's taken a lot of reprogramming.
Like I've been doing a lot of breath work and getting back into my body. This is why it excited me. It's like, I have these tools. I've worked with people, I've had therapists, I've gone through this and you're told all the information. But it isn't landing. It's there and I know it, but it's that. Yes. Ding, ding, ding, ding.
Yes. Ding, ding. Yes. Exactly. It's like the difference between intellectually knowing something and then like embodied feeling, believing that thing. And also like you can just have, you can have two completely opposing beliefs in just like different parts of your brain. And so part of the memory reconsolidation process is, yeah, exactly.
You need to like Bring those into experience the initial, meaning that you made of those experiences. So those initial beliefs and the new beliefs, you have to bring those into your experience simultaneously. And then that's actually what allowed the brain to kind of like unlock and be reconfigured.
And a lot of what I think like mainstream psychology tells us, and I don't mean mainstream psychology research. I mean, like, you know, like popular culture, like people not really. Knowing a lot, but maybe taking a course and then like coming on to social media and sharing what they know. They just don't know what they don't know.
And so a lot of, I hear a lot of, Oh, well, we're going to rewire your brain. And like, the more that you focus on it, the more that you hear it, the more that you tell yourself this thing, your brain is going to learn it and it's going to kind of like overwrite the old thing, but that's not actually, or it'll just stress.
Yes, exactly. What it's going to do is it's just going to be this like opposite opposing thing that also exists, but now you have like this cacophony of like beliefs and experiences. And that feels like overstimulating and overload to me. And for my clients, one of the things that like, like I do incorporate some mainstream approaches, like.
I do, so like for therapy, for example, like cognitive behavior therapy, dialectical behavior therapy, those are coping skills. And so those are more counteractive approaches of like, let's say with DBT, it might be like, I'm feeling emotionally overwhelmed. And so I'm going to use this distress tolerance skill, which is really focusing mindfully on something that's going to help me kind of distract or bring an anchor in that I can focus on so that I can handle this.
Distress that's present, but it's not it doesn't last right exactly and it doesn't get rid of that distress So one of the things that I noticed when I first started working as a therapist was like I'm teaching people how to cope With being unhappy, like I'm teaching people how to cope with being stressed.
Like I'm not removing stress, like I'm not helping them actually be much happier. I'm just helping them be better at managing things. And for me, especially someone who has complex post traumatic stress disorder from like relational abuse and trauma in my family, like I have already. Manage so much and manage other people's emotions and been so aware of so many things and had to like overthink and over control to be okay.
That to me, it didn't sit right to teach clients who had the same experiences like, Okay, to be okay, you have to manage more like, no, like, let's take some of this off of your plate so that you can actually just feel better. And it's just like, easier. Well, especially when we struggle with executive dysfunction.
It's like, okay, you're giving me coping mechanisms to help me function. But what if I want to thrive? What if I want to be more than just okay with how I am? What if I want to like, even when I went to therapy for postpartum depression after my daughter was born, like just the whole idea of grieving a past self and like working through that and we're given mechanisms and way to approach things and think things and do things differently.
Okay, that's great. That helped me understand that. Okay. She, now my therapist at the time could not confirm or deny I had ADHD, she wasn't allowed to give that diagnosis, but she gave me a lot of, coping mechanisms and ways to manage that, which is great, which I still use to this day, mindfulness has been a great tool, but it is a tool, and that's where I find therapy only goes so far, you do need therapy, I'm not discrediting therapy, therapy is incredible.
But this is what I love about you is you have therapy, but then you also brought these methods and techniques into life coaching where it's like, okay, so now you're functioning, but what if you could actually, what if you could remove that stress? What if you can actually be more than just happy and okay with it?
You know, like there's so much. And I feel like that's where the healer comes out, right? That drive to like, let's actually. Yes, a means for you to live your best life instead of coping. Yes, create a new way of living. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I love how lit up you were right there. Well, yeah, because it just because, well, because you get it, it's like nice to, you know, talk with someone who gets it.
And also because it's like. It's just I'm remembering the beginning of my career as a therapist and you know You work so hard to become a therapist like you have to go through like four years to your bachelor's degree to go through two Years to get your master's degree. You have to get the 3, 000 clinical Hours that are all supervised you to pass an exam.
And so You go through so, you also spend a ton of money in your institute alone, so it's like, you know, that entire time I'm kind of like, Oh, I'm going to learn how to help people. So when I first started working as a therapist, I was kind of disappointed because A lot of the times I worked at, I worked at a clinic and intensive outpatient, , program and partial hospitalization program, which are really high levels of care.
We have clients there five days a week, for like three to five hours a day, four weeks at a time. And it's usually people who are really struggling with their functioning. You know, they take off from work, they go on short term disability, things like that. And so I really wanted to help. I mean, of course, regardless of the setting, I'd want to help people, but especially in that situation where it's like they've had to put their lives on hold because they literally can't do it anymore, like they really need help.
And a lot of the people, especially in partial hospitalization program, We're suicidal. So it's like, to me, a lot of them had tried everything and this was their last ditch effort and this program was known for really helping people. So to me, it sounded like a lot of pressure. Cause I was like, if I don't help them, then they might think.
Yeah, exactly. It's like, if this didn't help, then nothing's going to help, so I should end my life. So, I put a lot of pressure on, well, I always put a lot of pressure on myself, because I care a lot, but, especially in that situation. And, one of the things that was really alarming to me is that, Other therapists and I in rounds, cause this was at a hospital, you know, with the psychiatrist, with our medical director, I would be talking to my supervisor or others would be talking to the supervisor and say like, this client isn't improving.
What can we do? And what kept happening over and over again is like the supervisor, the medical director, the psychiatrist would say things like, well, they're not going to get. Better like we just need to like manage them or like, you know, they're limited and how much better they can get and, and to me that was just never acceptable.
And, you know, I was told you're just young and, you know, young in general, but also green as a therapist. Yeah, exactly. But I was just so committed to actually helping people that I had to keep looking into what's going to make this better and I ended up this was just like serendipitous, but I, my friend was going to have a bachelorette party in Palm Springs, California, and I was like, that's an expensive, trip, which I'm on the east coast.
I'm in Vermont, , in America, which you're in Canada, right? I am. Yes. I'm on the west coast. Western. Oh, you're the west coast. Okay. I'm like midwestern, I guess.
That's so funny. Midwestern for Canada is so different from like, Midwestern for the United States. Yeah, it is. But yeah, I'm close to Canada, but on the east coast, I'm like close to Montreal. , So Palm Springs is real far from us. Like we're going from like Northeast to Southwest. And so that's an expensive trip.
So I was like, well, let me see if I can find a therapy training because then I can get the hospital to pay for it and pay for my flight. And I'll just stay with my friend and you know, whatever. So I find this training. I don't know anything about it. It's called AEDP, which stands for accelerated, Experiential dynamic psychotherapy, which doesn't really tell you anything about it, but for those of you listening if you know anything about like somatic Experiencing if you know about parts work, which Internal family system, is really well known for parts work.
So and also like an attachment focus is really what ADP is So I didn't know that at the time so I go out there And I'm in this training and I'm like, my mind is blown. Like, I'm like, this is incredible. I've never learned anything like this. It's not mainstream. It's, but it's totally well researched.
It's all based on like the understanding of the brain and attachment and all this stuff. I'm like, Oh my gosh, I need to do this. I need to get a therapist for myself for this. So when I came home, I got my own therapist. Changed my life to where like. I'm a completely different person now, which is to say I'm more myself now, right?
Because I could like actually take the mask off and make life what you wanted it to be. Yes, exactly. Seriously, exactly. So I could like shed those identities that weren't really mine or those like ways of being that I truly actually didn't even know. Like I wasn't ever consciously masking like none of that.
And so it's like, Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it was mind blowing to me to do and I call it can I swear on this podcast? Oh, yeah, fuck you can swear whatever. Okay. Okay, great. So I call it hippie shit I was laughing because like if if you told me in high school that like What I was gonna do when I got older is I was gonna like Be like, let's tune into the physical sensations of feelings in our body.
And like, we're going to connect to your inner child and like talk to them, like all this stuff. , but that's actually what works. That's how the brain changes is through experience. It doesn't change through intellectual conversation or just telling you to think differently. So anyway, so that changed my life because I went from like in my own family, I have a very abusive mom who I don't.
Have a relationship with anymore. But at the time I did, and I had always been very much like in order to survive, I had to see everything through her perspective so then I could figure out how do I interact with her? So that she's. Okay, you know, like so I can get through this kind of thing and like walk on eggshells So I wasn't connected to myself and my experience which is why it was so hard to kind of like leave the abuse because I couldn't I knew intuitively like you're actually a good person and you're not doing anything wrong when she would be abusive So and when I would stand up for myself and try to be an autonomous person and have boundaries, but it wasn't until this experience in AEDP, really connecting to my feelings, connecting to the parts of myself, where I could experience through my own perception and my point of view, what was going on.
And it was like, My brain totally shifted in that moment and it stayed that way where I no longer saw things like through a toxic perspective and saw them through mine. And that's life changing to see what's really true. Yeah. You say the rose colored glasses. It's like, yeah, but when we're masking, we can take those glasses off, but we don't even know we're still masking.
I've been saying I've taken the mask off a year ago, but honestly, in the last three months, like this year, We don't, we don't know what that means. We don't know what it means. And it is definitely, I can relate the sense of when you say experiences start to, or what rewire, it is, like, you have to blow a fucking fuse in order for something to run a different way.
Because we are wired out of habit, like, just like, we don't have to think about how to breathe. We just do. We don't have to learn how to walk. We just do. Exactly. If you can relate it on a very basic level, this story and this experience are like that. There is a certain neural pathway that is continuing until the re experience shifts it into a new way.
Totally. Totally. I'm loving this. I'm loving this. And also I think it's when you talk about the kind of like hippie shit woo that stuff, it's not, it's the experience is a very feminine nurturing going within and going It really is. Different because so many people focus on the intellectual side that masculine drive.
Yeah being nurtured and most of us that are fucked up and have weird shit going on that we're dealing with It's so true a level of nurturing that has not been net met as a basic need Yeah, no, that's such a good point. That's such a good point. And that brings me back to connecting that experience of ADP to the hospital and that like nurturing experience of like, that's what the clients there needed.
Yeah. Right. Like they got to this point in their lives where they couldn't function anymore. Yeah. Because they had pushed through life through these like adaptations of masks or identities or overworking or like whatever it was choosing partners that, you know, couldn't really be connected to them and, or healthy.
And they really needed that nurturing. And this program was actually really against it. Um, it was just like, no, you just need to teach them skills and like send them on their way. And I was just like, Nope. Like We're going to help them connect to them. So like, cause there was the group therapy piece where you would teach cognitive behavior therapy and dialectical behavior therapy skills.
But then in the one on one, when I met with my clients, like I could do whatever I want. Um, so I was, you know, having them go deep and really connecting to themselves and like so many lives literally changed. And for me, it really made me realize like, especially when it comes to things like, you know, suicidality.
It's like Well, yeah, if you're, if, if your life isn't one that you can continue living and you don't see yourself being able to live it, your life needs to change. Like your personal experience and your connection to yourself needs to change. But then usually because of all these adaptations, your life has kind of organized in alignment with those like unhealthy ways of being.
So then I also taught them like, we need to change some things about your life. Like. Maybe your job needs to change. Maybe your relationships need to change, you know, whatever it is. But we did like major like life surgery. And then also that was when it kind of clicked, like people were getting better so fast.
Like people who came in suicidal, weren't meeting criteria for a mental health diagnosis after like four to six weeks. And I was like, uh, okay. So I think I've hit upon something here and it is more of that coaching approach, right? It's that combination of like. the brain based and somatic experiential methods of like the memory reconsolidation and teaching skills because skills are important.
You need those sometimes. But then it's also like the coaching of like practically we need to change some things because your life needs to be sustainable and feel good. Well yeah and leading people through taking their their power back in order to improve their life and to get better it gives them I think you get kind of caught in a system when it does come to like, I can speak in my experience with, with postpartum depression.
Like I, I lucked out with my therapist because my friend was going through it and she got paired up with someone that shouldn't click with and it just, it's, you're, you're a chart and a checklist, right? And they go through and they give you, they check the boxes and it's like, okay, and you're giving me all of these things, but until you can help reframe something in a sense and give me the power to make the decisions to lead myself through it in a different way.
And. Inspire me to approach it a different way so that and giving me the power to know that I can be more than just a passion project like I don't just need to feel better. I need to make some changes so that I can become someone other than who I am in this moment because that's where really the struggle comes.
I feel like we get kind of disconnected when people are in a suicidal state. I'm not a therapist. So correct me if I'm wrong, but if we're in a suicidal state, okay. They've lost their will to continue as they are now. They don't know who they are, they are disconnected, they've been severed. So re establishing connection to life and their purpose is, is primal.
And they, that needs to be nurtured because a part of them, they never got to grow into who they want, were meant to be or, or want to be. They've, everything's upon them. They've been buried. So they're snuffed out. They're being snuffed out of their own existence. I feel like there's so much to be said about taking back your power.
I always say owning your magic. Well, finding your magic, having a spark, lighting it, fueling the fire. That's where coaching pushes us through from a point of, okay, here's your spark, but like, let's fuel, fan the flame. Don't become a house fire, burning everything down. We want to control it so that we can actually Create momentum, fueling the engine that's going to carry you through a better life.
Totally. Yeah, that's why I love it. It's the art and the science. That's a really good analogy. No, definitely. Like, yeah, like that spark and that you don't want it to become a house fire because I do see that a lot too with like clients who have come to me and who like maybe worked with other people and like, I'm not so sure.
saying that I'm for everyone or that like other people aren't good. Just that, like, you know, the clients who are fit for me are fit for me. Right. But I think because I tend to click really well with people who are like highly sensitive, neurodivergent, just like me, right. Yeah. You know, creative, like huge heart, super empathetic, probably so empathetic that it's hard to like.
You know, set boundaries and maintain boundaries, maybe, , when they come to me, a lot of the times it's like their spark can go to that, like house fire really quickly, actually, and so that's the swinging between extremes of like, I keep trying to, like, fix this thing in my life, or whatever, and I have tried every single way, but it's not working.
Not only is it not working, but I kind of went hard at the wrong solution. And so now I have this house fire, like, help me with that. And so it is that, like, how can we support you to, like, Reconnect with yourself, but then, and like, maybe learn some tools, heal some things, you know, with the brain, all of that, but then, like, help you go in a certain direction with some of those, like, guardrails so that you don't kind of just go, boom.
Yeah, exactly. And it is about, like, Kind of working myself out of a job is my goal is like you said it's like you want to teach people how to reconnect to themselves and like how to do these things on their own like I try to I am really open about everything that I'm doing and I teach people along the way as like this is what like this is the process that we need to move through in order to you know change your brain and so here's the first part of the process and what I'm looking for and that way we can Collaborate because they have a context for what I'm trying to do.
But also it's like, then they're learning how to do that in their own life. And I have a lot of clients who now I only meet with like once a month and their lives are great. And again, like, that's not something I would be able to do as a therapist, but as a coach, you can do that where people are like, I don't need you anymore at all, because I can do all of this on my own and my life is wonderful, but I still enjoy coming to meet with you like once a month, because it just feels And it just feels good to have what I call a clear mirror where like you can have yourself reflected back to you and kind of just like see yourself even deeper and clearer.
Um, and sometimes people will come in and be like, I need a little tweak, you know, too. Well, just even just self celebration. Everyone talks about self love, but no one actually goes in. Self love is self celebration. It's more than just taking like, yes, we all need self care, but self celebration, like we are so fixed, especially when you're divergent and you get on like a war path for self growth and healing, your life's purpose becomes healing.
But you're always going to be healing and learning, but your life purpose is not meant to be healing. Actually, it's funny we're talking about this because I was thinking of doing another episode on this Yes, girl. People get so fixated on like, finding what's broken and fixing what's broken, identifying their traumas.
And it's like, okay, but also digging up shit just for the sake of feeling like shit to fix it isn't going to get you anywhere either. Yes. Like stop re traumatizing yourself, acknowledge, accept, and then go and seek help that you need and the tools that you need where like you could do, sorry I can't remember how you, it's memory.
Re consolidation. Re consolidation. So you go through processes like this and you, you have a therapist to help you with coping and tools and mechanisms and then removing that so you can thrive. These are all things that we, we have control over, but don't get stuck in a cycle of constantly seeking what needs to be fixed.
I can become a hyper fixation and then you're just totally, you're just always going to feel broken. You're human. We're not going to be perfect. You have to accept that. Like, yes. Finding how to live again and how to use tools and seek tools in times of need I think is what's not spoke to without making it an alignment with your purpose.
Your purpose is to fucking live. Exactly. Your life. Your purpose is to create the most magical life for yourself. Your purpose is to embody everything and anything that you ever want to be. It is all possible for you if you take responsibility for your healing but don't fixate on it. Yes, right. I love that.
Yeah, no, totally. I mean, I that's in just another example of how the spark can become that house fire. If you don't have, boundaries with yourself, and you don't have that awareness, and often you do need a coach, , so that you have someone else who can see it and show it to you. So you can recognize that pattern and you aren't just fixated for the rest of your life on healing and not just like enjoying your life because it totally can become the thing where it's like, am I better?
Oh, in order to better. Yeah, right. And in order to feel good, I have to do this. And I Like, I feel good, but I could probably feel better. So let me keep doing this. But it's like, at some point you just need to like, enjoy. And yes, it's like the work is never over, but there is a place like for me with my clients, it's like.
Of course, in the beginning, there's a ton of work because I'm really assessing what's going on, getting to the root of the problem, what needs to change, bringing them through those experiences so we can change the brain. Like, so there's a lot of things that are changing and I get them unstuck and get them to where they want to be.
And then we try to like solidify and maintain that. But then I would say at that point, it's like, it really should be. Now you're enjoying your life. And when you notice things that are cropping up that you want to work on, Then you can work on those things, but don't go looking for them. It's just, well, you look at like, I like to relate it in the aesthetics industry.
Like you look at skin picking. If you get a zoomed in mirror and you look at your face through a zoomed in mirror, you are going to find every single little flaw there is, and then you're going to obsess over it. And usually if you're trying to pick at your own face, you end up having a bunch of marks, a bunch of redness.
You're good. Like, yeah. For example, when people come in for facials, and I'm only using a very physical thing just so people can relate when they're listening. If people are coming in for facials and you're repairing the skin barrier, and now your face is functioning better and it's healthy, you don't need to keep throwing all these different products and things on it to attack a problem that no longer exists until it arises.
Oh, you know what? Things are looking a little dehydrated. I should moisturize. Like, just, it's just that simple. Your mental health? can be in alignment with like your health care, your skin care, your self care. It's just a matter of having that functionality when knowing when to ask for help is vital.
Knowing where to go to help and putting in the work when you need help, vital. But not getting lost and stuck in that fixation. And I love this because there's so much on social media right now around ADHD, around trauma, around all this stuff. Okay. And remember, go on TikTok. You spend like a few seconds on a video, that's all you're going to see in your feed.
And then people are convinced that it's a sign from the universe that there's something wrong with them. And I mean, It's diagnosis. It's the algorithm. Yeah. But if you fixate on the content you're consuming, like I know I've gone down this when they were looking at my emergency and postpartum depression and I was like, I all of a sudden I went to her, I'm like, well, I must be bipolar.
Like I have all these things and I must be this and I must be this. And she's like, okay, I'm going to let you do this assessment. And then we're going to reflect on it. And what we found out is like, there's a lot of different tendencies that all of us have, and you can fixate on those and self diagnose.
But if you're having a consistent, so for me, what we looked at was what is consistently happening. What is consistently how, instead of looking for what's wrong with you, looking for how you work, how do you work and where are you stuck? Whereas, so for me, my executive function, my multi passionate, I was always like, well, what's wrong with me?
Why can't I, why can't I, why can't I actually, because I'm super fucking creative and this is how my brain works. So this is how I'm going to manage it when I go through these moments. And this is how I'm going to manage this. And like, You know, there's so many things in the web, so I'd like you to maybe touch on wrapping it up when you're coming in for something like this.
How, what is the advice you have for someone who's in that fixation of, I've got to fix my memories, and now I've got to fix my childhood, and what else could there be? And people who are seeking, and like, over consuming, and they're kind of trapping themselves again into that self diagnosis hole, and that conflict, and all the voices they're consuming, trying to over learn, over correct, do it myself.
What do you have to say to someone to reach out to a therapist or when to look into coaching and whether it's you or anyone else, what's your advice there? Yeah. Well, the first thing that I would do is when you're looking for someone to work with, I would ask them, what is their belief system around diagnosis to begin with?
So, to me, my belief system with the DSM diagnosis is that there, it's just a list of symptoms, and it doesn't really mean anything other than pointing in a certain direction at what might be going on, and one person who is diagnosed with depression 10 people who are diagnosed with depression have completely different root causes and completely different ways that that depression is functioning.
So for example, one person might have depression and it's there because Subconsciously, they need to, like, shut down, be frozen, be exhausted, in order to avoid the anger that they've been repressing that they have learned is not okay for them to have and they feel shame around, so the depression is there to function to keep them from feeling that anger.
The way that you would approach working with that is completely different than someone who is depressed because they have chronic trauma, they've experienced chronic stress, and they're literally just exhausted. And so depression kicks in for, you know, neurobiological reasons. So I think it's really important for people in a situation like what you're sharing, is that they work with someone who is going to look at the function of the brain.
Of their experiences like the function of their thoughts and feelings and behaviors and looking at those patterns and figuring out the root cause so if someone if you ask A provider a therapist or a coach like what do you think about diagnosis? Well a coach really shouldn't say anything But a therapist should in my opinion you want to work with someone who's like Okay.
Diagnosis is just like one part of the picture, you know, but I'm really looking a lot deeper than that. And I'm looking at you holistically and comprehensively. And yeah, in working with someone around that. What I would be doing is I would be figuring out again, like, what's the function of this behavior of fixating on this?
Is it that they're scared that if they let go, then they're not going to be okay. And it's all going to fall apart because in their experiences, again, going back to the brain and memory reconsolidation, they learned that. Okay, if I stop working, or I stop controlling, or I let myself rest, everything's going to fall apart.
Then we want to work on changing that memory, that belief, right? Yeah, exactly. And creating, exactly, creating those new beliefs because then that fixation is going to go away, right? The fixation exists because the fixation is what people think that they need to do to be okay. So the question that anyone that you work with, and you definitely should work with someone around this, you shouldn't try to figure it out yourself.
Because it's hard to, it's hard to like, figure that out when your brain is working that way. And that's just gonna, Dig your hole deeper because you're just trying to solve more on your own, but anyone that you're working with should really be looking at, like, why does it serve you? How does it serve you?
And how does it make sense that you're fixated on this? And then based on how it makes sense, how are we going to help you? So much of the way that like mainstream, therapy approaches people is, it's medicalized. It's something's wrong with you. And it's so, so what's wrong with you and how do you not make sense?
No, like that's not how you help people. Like actually everything makes sense. Yeah, right. If you understand the brain, everything makes sense. Like based on what you've experienced, you make sense. Yeah, exactly. So you also want to work with someone who has that kind of approach of like, I'm gonna get to know you, I'm gonna get to know the root of what's going on, I'm gonna form a map in my mind of what your mind is like, and I'm gonna figure out how you make sense.
I'm gonna validate the shit out of you, and make sure that you know that you are incredible and like, Like there's nothing wrong with you, there's everything that's right with you, and we can just use the way the brain naturally works to heal that and to move past that and get them stuck. I love how this is coming into like a summary where I want to ask you, would you say that with this and your work, it's not so much about teaching people how to fix themselves, it's more about showing people how to find out more about themselves so that they can actually Follow and live a life that they didn't know for them.
Yes. 100%. Yes. And one of the things one of my clients actually at the hospital when I worked there said to me and then set gave me permission to share this. So this is with permission. She said a brain doesn't conform to social norms. No, it doesn't. And that has stuck with me. And of course it was like, you said that in response to me teaching about the brain, right?
But it just like, it hit me of like, there is so, there's so many expectations that are put on us, either implicitly or explicitly. , in terms of how we should be, and they are not aligned with the reality of how we work. And a lot of the times, the people who are the most critical of you are the least connected to themselves, the least accepting of themselves, and You know, they don't they don't know how to live a good life.
They're also just surviving, but they think that this is the only way and they're probably asleep and not, you know, really conscious or self aware. And so the people who give you feedback that make you feel bad about yourself, just know that they're not. They don't, they truly don't know what they're talking about, not in a mean way, like, I hope they find themselves too.
Whatever you're experiencing makes sense, and find someone who knows that you make sense, and figures out how you make sense, and then can help you. It's so, yeah, like, it's all, it comes down to experience. It has to be rooted in experience. Life is experience. Your existence, your brain, your physical makeup, everything is rooted in experience.
You can't Over educate yourself into being a certain way or, or information is information, but you have to experience it in order to absorb and do it. Life is about experience. Yes, the whole thing. Exactly. Your life and your brain, everything in it, everything here is about experience. Memories are what?
An experience. Yes. We are framed literally in this existence by our experience. Yes. Yes. That's a great way to end the show. That is incredible. Wow. I love it. You just tied it up. So, so good. Well, thank you, Allie, so much for being here. We're going to have to do another talk because this is, yeah, this sounds cool.
And you do so you just, you just do really amazing work. And I'm really glad that we've connected outside of here. And I continue, I'm going to continue learning more about this. We're going to have to work together or something. Cause this is some cool shit. Yeah. Sounds good. I'd love to. And he wants to connect with Allie.
You can find her. On Instagram, do you, where do you forget people? Yep, at IamAllyWest, which is A L L I E W E S T. So, I am Allie West. We'll drop in the show notes, because for all my divergent soul sisters out there, they're going to want to probably find someone that actually Yeah, yeah. I'll nerd out with you.
You can pick my brain. I love talking about this stuff. Right? And I love how much it lights you up. Thank you so much for agreeing to be here today because when you just mentioned, I was like, we have got to talk. This is so fun. So thank you again for blowing my mind in the best way. And I send you much love and I can't wait to reconnect with you outside of here.
All right. Sounds good. Have a good one.
